Episode 068: Laundry 101 with Melissa Dilkes Pateras

Episode Transcription

On this week’s episode, Diana chats with laundry expert and author Melissa Dilkes Pateras all about laundry myths, best practices, and so much more. 

You can find her on TikTok here: Laundrytok | Melissa Pateras (@melissadilkespateras) Official | TikTok

You can find her new book here: A Dirty Guide to a Clean Home: Housekeeping Hacks You Can't Live Without

In this episode, we cover:

Homemade laundry detergent is not effective and can damage your washing machine. The guest explained that commercial detergents are specifically formulated for high-efficiency machines and properly cleaning clothes. Homemade detergents often do not clean well and leave residue on clothes. As the host said, “Homemade laundry detergent is often not effective and can leave residue on your clothes. It's best to stick with commercial detergents that are specifically formulated for high-efficiency machines.”

  1. Look for natural, eco-friendly detergent options if you want to avoid harsh chemicals. Many major brands like Tide and Persil offer fragrance-free, dye-free options that work well. Check the ingredients to find simple, natural options.
  2. For most stains, pretreat with liquid laundry detergent and let it sit before washing. Dish soap like Dawn also works great for grease and oil stains. Hydrogen peroxide is excellent for whitening and brightening stains on white clothes. These methods avoid the need for most commercial stain removers. As the host recommended, “For most stains, pretreat with liquid laundry detergent and let it sit before washing. Dish soap like Dawn also works great for grease and oil stains.”
  3. Hot water is not necessary for most loads and can fade and damage clothes. Use cold water for the majority of loads to prolong the life of your clothes. Hot water is only needed for whites and when using oxygen bleach. According to the host, “Hot water is not necessary for most loads and can fade and damage clothes. Use cold water for the majority of loads to prolong the life of your clothes.”  
  4. Disinfecting and sanitizing clothing is usually unnecessary and the products are often used incorrectly. Only disinfect when someone in the household is ill. Be sure to follow the directions carefully regarding water temperature, sit time, and rinsing. For general cleaning, hot water and detergent are sufficient. As the host explained, “Disinfecting and sanitizing clothing is usually unnecessary and the products are often used incorrectly. Only disinfect when someone in the household is ill.”

What can you expect from this podcast and future episodes?

  • 15-20 minute episodes to help you tackle your to-do list
  • How to declutter in an effective and efficient way
  • Guest interviews
  • Deep dives on specific topics  

Find Diana Rene on social media:
Instagram: @the.decluttered.mom
Facebook: @the.decluttered.mom
Pinterest: @DianaRene

Are you ready for a peaceful and clutter-free home? Watch my FREE training video "Kiss Clutter Goodbye" to learn how it's possible! And find all of my resources here.

This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse grammatical errors.

Diana Rene: 0:06

You're listening to The Decluttered Mom Podcast. A podcast built specifically for busy moms by a busy mom. I'm your host, Diana Renee, and in 2017, I had my second daughter, and it felt like I was literally drowning in my home. Okay, not literally. But I felt like I couldn't breathe with all of the stuff surrounding me. Over the next ten months, I got rid of approximately 70% of our household belongings, and I have never looked back. I kind of feel like I hacked the mom system, and I'm here to share all the tips, tricks, and encouragement. Let's listen to today's show. 

Welcome to this episode of the decluttered mom podcast. Today, I have a guest for you. I have another guest expert. As you know, a few weeks ago, I talked about how we're starting to implement more guest experts on the podcast. We're not doing away with my solo episodes or with my member story episodes. We're still doing those. We're just kind of adding a little bit more variety to the podcast each week. So today I have someone named Melissa Pateris, and she is someone that I actually found on TikTok a while ago, because she came up on my 4u page on TikTok and, like I stopped for because her question was do you know what happens when you take your clothes to get dry cleans, Like do you know what dry cleaning actually is? And I like literally paused her video and I was like no, I don't, I don't know what it is. And it really caught my attention. I started looking through her videos and I love that. She is just straight to the point and she explains, like, the science behind laundry. She explains how machines work. You guys, I had, like I had so many questions for her that we ended up we had to cut the interview a little bit short because of some scheduling things. But let me know, after you listen today, can you send me a DM? Let me know if this was helpful for you and if it is, maybe we can convince her to come back on the show to dig into even more. Because I did not. I felt like I got. I only got like one 70th of my questions, because she is just so knowledgeable and there were several things that she told me in this conversation that I just didn't know. I had no idea. I, you know, I, I. There's a common misconception about me and my account that because I understand decluttering and organizing and home management and productivity, like all of those things that involve the home, that I must know everything about cleaning, and I don't. I'm not a cleaning expert. I know, like tips you know, here and there that I have learned over the years that I will share, but I am not like the go to cleaning person. At least at this point. I do not know nearly enough about cleaning, and so she is someone who I just really admire her knowledge and her ability to easily explain things that just make sense, like complicated topics that just make sense. So, without further ado, let's listen to that conversation with Melissa, All right? So on today's podcast we have Melissa Pateras. Did I say it right? Yes, you just told me how to say it now and my brain already already blanked. I actually found her, or I found you on TikTok scrolling late at night one night and you were talking about dry cleaning actually, and I remember stopping because you were saying like do you know what dry cleaning actually is? And I like stop for a minute and I'm like actually no, I have no idea what dry cleaning is, and so that was my first introduction to you, but I would love it if you could tell the listeners just a little bit about who you are and kind of how you became this expert on all things laundry and cleaning.

Melissa Pateras: 4:19

Yeah, I actually have always been into cleaning and laundry and organizing. I just always felt that I was a bit weird because of it, to be completely honest. And then the pandemic hit and I did a few parenting videos on Facebook. They took off. And then when I moved over to TikTok, I it sort of started as a joke because another TikToker who made bread I was going to do at her, so side by side her video, and I certainly I can't cook, I couldn't make bread and I thought, well, I'll just fold laundry. And then it really took off from there. I mean, I had no idea that people were interested in folding and cleaning and as much as I am, you know, I grew up. I spent a lot of time with my grandmother, who was incredibly organized and she was a big cleaner and I just I grew up watching her and spending a lot of time with her and just sort of developed a sort of a love of cleaning and being organized and that feeling and I have ADHD, so I feel that it's it actually kind of calms and slows me down. It helps that the fact that I know where everything is and everything's clean, and yeah, so it helps and that's really how it took off.

Diana Rene: 5:45

That's awesome. So I know your tagline on either Instagram or TikTok is like something about folding laundry, right? Yes, yeah, I love that it's amazing.

Melissa Pateras: 5:56

I can't believe that so many people are interested in watching me fold a piece of laundry, but I think, yeah, it's kind of nice to. I mean, I try to put sort of a fun spin on fairly boring tasks that not everyone loves to do. And I think that, probably since a lot of people don't have TV anymore in terms of cable, so we don't see commercials, we don't really buy magazines anymore, so how do you ever learn about a product, how do you know what a product does? And we see them in the grocery store and nobody knows what they're for or what they're supposed to buy. You sort of go back to your childhood and think, well, I think my mom used fabric softener, I think she used tide or whatever the soap is, and then we just do what we've always done, but in terms of new products, nobody knows how to use them. So I feel that I do a lot of education on that, like what, how to use something?

Diana Rene: 7:03

Absolutely. Yeah, it's so funny you say that too, because we primarily have Netflix and Hulu and things like that. But we do have cable, thanks to my husband and football. But my girls and I started watching the voice on TV and so like we had to like actually record it like on DVR and watch it. And my six year old the other night was like why does it stop Like every two minutes and show commercials? And I'm like that's.

Melissa Pateras: 7:33

  1. It's incredible because we're so accustomed to this immediate. You know the way that they time it, you know and make you anticipate after the commercial. We just don't have that. Everything is very immediate and condensed. So it's like you want all of the information really quick and you want to be able to skip to the end and, you know, to the results and that sort of thing.

Diana Rene: 7:59

So it's a different time. Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned that you have ADHD. Did you find out about that when you were younger or were you late?

Melissa Pateras: 8:10

diagnosed. It's interesting because I always knew that something you know. But I think growing up 70s, 80s everyone's like, oh, they're just the class clown, or they talk a lot or they're easily distracted. But as an adult I noticed that I was struggling in long meetings. I'm a social worker and I struggled sitting in. There is a fly in here. I struggled, sitting in long meetings, and so I finally thought you know what, forget it, I'm just gonna go get it diagnosed, because both of two of my three children are also ADHD. And I thought, well, I've never actually addressed it myself. So I but it took me a long time because I have ADHD and they ask you 25 million questions and the first time you know I would sit in a room with like this clicky pen and a big window and just be watching squirrels while I'm trying to answer questions. You know, do I love skydiving? Do I all these strange questions? And so I quit because I was like this is too much, and then I had to go back, so I took a couple of years to finally get my diagnosis.

Diana Rene: 9:31

Okay, that makes sense. I was diagnosed also when at age 37. And it was like, oh my gosh, my entire life makes so much more sense and I'm primarily inattentive. So, like, looking back, as a child, my mom was like, oh yeah, well, the teachers were always wondering, like why you were always daydreaming and it was hard for you to focus and you were, you know, forgetting your assignments, Like it's like, oh, it's okay, but I know that when I was diagnosed, my the psychiatrist that diagnosed me was like you know, I think you've been like kind of self treating in a way by discovering, decluttering, and because with me it was when my second was born, she was colicky and it was like I could feel the walls closing in on me in my home and I got rid of like 70% of our household belongings and like have never looked back. And so I don't think most people know how, like life changing, if you do have ADHD, it is to have your house in order, but it's like that catch 22, right when, like someone with ADHD needs that space, but it's harder to maintain that space.

Melissa Pateras: 10:47

It's tricky and I think that it was the same because, you know, at the diagnostic stage it was, I almost appeared not to have it because of the coping skills that I've developed over my life and just in order to cope almost makes it look like I didn't have it. So, yeah, and I think that that's just it. I think, and that was thought, that's the whole theme sort of throughout my book is that keeping up is easier than catching up, right and cause you have to get to that point where you can, I mean, and that, again, that even sounds easier than than you know, said than done. But yeah, it's the same thing with me. I don't keep a lot of stuff around because visual clutter it just completely. I feel like it monopolizes all of my thoughts. Yeah, like a dark cloud. Yes, absolutely so, yeah, I mean I'm a big advocate of not living like a minimalist or like a vacant building. That's not ideal. But you know a lot of things like well, you know I sort of delve into why are you keeping it? You know, you know keeping those genes isn't earning the money back that you're upset that you spent on them and you know you're not going to do that much painting right, because a lot of times we repurpose things so that we can justify keeping them. You know like, oh no, I'll keep that for painting. So yeah, so I have over the years just, you know, kind of culling techniques, just getting rid of stuff.

Diana Rene: 12:31

It's like your justifications are more ambitious than you are. Yeah, yeah.

Melissa Pateras: 12:37

Because you get caught in the past a lot with stuff. So it's like, well, this is why, or this is how much, or the future, I might need it. You never know I might need it, so yeah.

Diana Rene: 12:50

And you know I have followed you on TikTok for a while now. But when your book pre-release came out and I was reading about it, I was like, okay, we are kindred spirits because my so my decluttering program is called minimalish starts here. So it's the whole concept of like I'm not a minimalist. I am minimalish Because I still like to have. I don't want a bare empty room with one sofa and a plant, you know.

Melissa Pateras: 13:17

Absolutely, I like stuff too. I mean, we all like stuff and I have. I don't want to throw everything out because there are instances where you may need it, but I just figure, you know, if it's not used every so often, I'm probably never going to use it.

Diana Rene: 13:35

So Absolutely Okay. So I really want to talk to you about laundry because, like, like I said, that was how I first discovered you and as I watched more of your videos, I was like, okay, I didn't know, that's how that worked, just like you're saying, you know, like all the new products that come out and I see them in the store and I just kind of walk by because I'm like I don't know what that is. And, as I was telling you before we started recording, I have done all things decluttering and organizing and productivity and things like that over the past six years now and I get a lot of cleaning questions because of the type of topics that I cover and I am not a cleaning expert and I don't pretend to be, but laundry is something that I get a lot of questions and also laundry seems to be very controversial. Every time I post anything about laundry, I get a lot of very passionate opinions and I have found that very interesting. It's funny how people get so excited in different ways about laundry.

Melissa Pateras: 14:50

Yeah, people have certain beliefs, or you know practices that they've done over the years, or you know I do. I do spend a lot of time sort of debunking myths as well, right, yeah, so yeah, people are very passionate about laundry, cleaning, and dishes seem to be the top ones.

Diana Rene: 15:08

Yes, that too, so I okay. Speaking of debunking myths, I want to jump right in to one that. I think I know your answer, but maybe you'll surprise me. Homemade detergent for laundry. What are your feelings?

Melissa Pateras: 15:27

My feelings are. You know, I have been through this a few times on TikTok because I do get frustrated when something gets viral. That is actually you know it. I understand that we are all trying to feel like we're being better to the environment, but homemade detergent really isn't the way to go, because what's happening is people are grinding up the bars of soap and the companies that are making them are loving it. They are never made so much money. They are for hand washers. That is what they're for. They're for people who don't have the privilege of owning or having access to Okay, so they're using the saute, the fells, napped all of these bar soaps and then they're taking, they're buying them because they're, you know, $2 each, and then they're shredding them up. And then they're adding a whole bunch of ingredients like borax, washing soda, scent beads to this concoction and they're saying you only need one tablespoon, so this is so much cheaper and it's going to last you a year, and even Amazon is jumping on that bandwagon and offering it as a package. But the issue is that those bars of soap need three types of energy to work. So chemical, which is the soap. Mechanical, which is rubbing the heck out of something like on a washboard right, that's what they're for, then we it also needs heat. So that is why we are having a really hard time as a society moving to cold water washing. Because we don't believe it. Because back in the day, our soap not detergent required heat in order to dissolve and clean the clothes. Now, 50% of all cleaning in your laundry at all happens with water. 50% of the cleaning happens just with water. If you didn't use any detergent, 50% of the soil would be removed from water. But when we're trying to be environmentally friendly, we want to use cold water because all detergents are now formulated to working cold water. So it's better for the environment, better for your wallet. So if you are putting these ground soaps into your high efficiency machine in cold water number one, they don't clean anything because they need heat or you have to use hot water and that doesn't make a lot of sense, right, right, why would I do that? And they don't dissolve, so you run the risk of ruining your machine and all of the pipes, everything, like I mean the amount of feedback I get from that saying yeah, I did that for a year and it was thousands in repairs. Oh yeah, a high efficiency machine is designed to work with less water, less detergent, but a detergent that's formulated for high efficiency. So the homemade detergents will. It doesn't work the way you're hoping they will work. A lot of the ingredients that you're buying, that you're adding to it is what's helping a little bit of the cleaning, but over time that stuff the soap, because it's not detergent. You can't make your own detergent. The soap will cling to your clothing and actually attract dirt, so they'll be dirty, they'll be dingy and they'll feel greasy, like if you mopped your floors with soap and just walked away like they didn't rinse it off. So it's a bad idea. I get where people are coming from, but if you are looking for natural detergents, there are a lot of them available on the market. There are a lot of more eco-friendly detergents. If you don't want chemicals or scents, there are a lot of options. But a high efficiency machine is designed to work with high efficiency detergent.

Diana Rene: 19:35

Yeah, that makes sense. I have never done the homemade detergent thing because I had a friend years and years ago who did it and she was saying, kind of what you were saying was like she just felt like her clothes felt dingier, like they felt like there was soap on them still, Like she couldn't get them rinsed out. So I never tried it. But that's one of those things that people get very passionate about.

Melissa Pateras: 20:00

There's billions and billions of dollars spent on research and development for detergents, and there's a reason for that. If it were a simple $2 fix, then big companies would be using those bars and then people will come back and say, yeah, but they actually sell them in flakes, Right, yeah, it's like well, yeah, but this is all because a lot of these people are now trying to feel eco-friendly and somehow they're helping the environment. But it's not. If you are having dirty clothes and having to replace your machine, your pipes, it's just there's no sense. And if you have to use hot water, I can be way more eco-friendly by using a high efficiency machine in cold water Like that itself is a huge help to the environment.

Diana Rene: 20:48

Yeah, and you don't want to have to replace pipes.

Melissa Pateras: 20:52

We had to do that.

Diana Rene: 20:53

We had to do that in our old house in our kitchen, because we had a kitchen pipe break and that it's not fun. And you're not saving anybody.

Melissa Pateras: 21:03

No, no, or time. The time it takes to take an hour and a half to do this soap.

Diana Rene: 21:09

It's like yeah, okay, so that leads me into another very common question where I will get people asking me you know, I really, really, really want to use detergent that is non-toxic or low-tox detergent, but I feel like it doesn't work as well, or I'm worried it's not going to work as well, like, what are your thoughts? Do you think that we just have to stick with, like the main real detergents, or do you think there are instances where those will work?

Melissa Pateras: 21:45

It's. You have to ask yourself what you're actually looking for. So what does non-toxic mean to you? Because I think a lot of people are mixing up like is it scent? Is that your issue? Because scent is very separate from chemical, from. Do you know what I mean? So you need to determine what it is that you're looking for. If it's completely non-toxic ingredients, then you have to read the ingredients and understand what they are. You want to look for simple ingredients. You know, one of my favorites is Nellies, because it's only four ingredients. It's very, very simple ingredients and it actually works. And that's the issue is that there are a lot of companies coming out with, you know, and they sort of hate on big brand companies, but they don't work. You know, there is nobody that wants the sheets to work. I want them to work more than anyone.

Diana Rene: 22:48

That was a big question yeah.

Melissa Pateras: 22:50

I know I get that one. They're convenient, they seem like the best thing ever. They're lightweight If you're a laundry mat user, if you're a student, if you're a traveler, they work on lightly soiled, but the technology just isn't there yet. However, big companies are, they're coming, but just right now they are in the mid to low, low range in terms of performance, because I've tested pretty much every detergent out there. But if it's scent and dyes, there are a lot of big brand companies that have free and gentle and they work really, really well. There's a reason why big brands are big brands because of performance. So if you're looking for stain removal, if you're looking for whitening, that's different than I'll use anything. I just I get irritated, right. So is it? Is it, you know, per sale, free and gentle, or tied, free and gentle? Those are big brands that are really great, but it depends what you're looking for. But they do exist, they are out there. But, again, for the most part you're paying more for those per load, right? Because they come in smother packaging, or you may need to buy a subscription, or you can't just get it at your grocery store, right? So you want to look at convenience too. I mean, it depends on what you're looking for, but there are some out there that work.

Diana Rene: 24:24

Okay, that's good to know. So when you're talking about cold water, you know how detergents are made to use. Now, with cold water, what about, like, when you're washing sheets, towels, things like that Like, do we still need to be using hot water?

Melissa Pateras: 24:43

You can. Okay, you want to use. I think where people get confused is between, like, cleaning, disinfecting, and we're going through this whole.

Diana Rene: 24:52

Everything has to sanitize.

Melissa Pateras: 24:53

Yeah, yeah. So I mean water does need to be at a certain temperature to fully disinfect and sanitize or whatever. But a lot of people will choose to do whites in hot, and that's totally fine. The reason why that's fine is because the number one culprit for fading is warm water. So if, if you are using warm or hot water, your clothes are going to be faded. So using cold water prolongs the life in the look of your clothing. If you want it to look newer, brighter, you use cold. It's the warm water that removes the dyes and fades your clothes. So whites it doesn't matter. Do you want? You know, and and and I? I use hot in whites because I use oxygen bleach. So an oxy product which is whitening works in hot water. It doesn't work well in cold. So if I'm doing a load of sheeps, I'll put an oxygenated bleach like oxy clean. I'll put that in it in hot. It works. That is the best way to use that product. Okay, so there's nothing wrong with doing your, your whites in hot.

Diana Rene: 26:06

Okay. So then, speaking of like disinfecting and sanitizing, you said that you have kids, so you know all the sick germs and all of that. I have bet in the past. I bought that, that sanitizing I don't. I don't know if it was a detergent, it was like an add in type thing. But then I was reading the instructions and was so overwhelmed I was like I can't do that.

Melissa Pateras: 26:31

A lot of people are using that wrong Okay. So in in Canada and the US they're called something different and they are a little bit different ones a sanitizer and one's a disinfectant. It's by Lysol. There are a couple of them out there, but 99.9% of the people don't read the instructions. So I'm glad that you read the bottle, because it's very complicated and what people don't understand is it's not an additive. Okay, so you can add it in the rinse cycle, but there's a sit time like anything, right? So when you're disinfecting a hard surface, if you read the instructions, oftentimes it will give you a sit time. So how long does that have to sit before I wipe it off? It's the same with the laundry disinfectant. So one of them is a very strange something like 16 minutes. You see, you can do it by hand in a bucket. You have to let it sit for 16 minutes and I have to rinse it out then wash it thoroughly. You really don't need to be disinfecting your clothing unless somebody in the house is ill. Okay, it's just I don't know what people think is happening on the clothes, but then you need to step it up. So if you are genuinely concerned, so somebody in your house has the flu, yeah, and they're vomiting, they have diarrhea, so of course we need to disinfect those. But you need to do a lot of steps. So those clothes need to be cleaned immediately. They don't sit in a basket. You have to disinfect the basket because now that is contaminated. So if people are missing that step you don't shake any of those clothes out. They go immediately into the wash and for the most part a hot wash does more than those disinfectant which I think really got traction during COVID to feed on people's need to live in this. Completely sanitized, you know, and there is a difference. It's long, there's a difference between sanitizing and disinfecting and they're different processes. But for the most part you have to read the bottle. But again, it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

Diana Rene: 28:40

Yeah, I think for me when I bought that, it was like the third stomach bug in like four weeks, you know, and it was like okay, I felt like it was like somehow we were re-infecting ourselves and I was so over it. Yeah.

Melissa Pateras: 28:55

And I mean, if that's the case, the laundry is your first step. So you're right, and that's fine. You follow the instructions, you use, you know, a warmer hot water, but then you're also disinfecting all of the high touch surfaces in your home, right? So your railings, your light switches, like anything that people touch, not just countertops and toilets right, yeah, yeah, awesome, okay.

Diana Rene: 29:20

Another really big question that people wanted to know was the best, like it was all things stains, right, which I'm sure you could talk about for like an hour for every stain, but if you had to only pick one, like spot treatment, what would it be?

Melissa Pateras: 29:38

Okay, are you ready? Because it's a huge secret. It's laundry detergent. Oh, really, yeah. What a lot of people don't understand is that you don't need this whole array of every spray thing that jumped out at you at the grocery store, the commercial you saw. So a quality detergent. And when I say quality, it has to be top tier. So I'm talking tied per sill like top tier detergent. Those are the top two performing. I really don't use stain remover. I start with a tiny bit of laundry detergent and you put it on the stain, rub it in, even with your finger, let it sit and then toss it in the wash. 90% of your stains will come out by pre-treating with a quality detergent.

Diana Rene: 30:25


Melissa Pateras: 30:26

Now, that being said, that is great if you use liquid detergent, not if you use pods, right, because we're not going to cut those open. So if you have a, I like liquid detergent best, but so that is the number one. But for grease oil, I use Dawn dish soap. Again, you spot treat, rub it in, let it sit. Those are the top two stain removers that there are. Okay, because most of your stains are grease oil. Now if you've got whites with a stain, secret best, best, best. Hydrogen peroxide.

Diana Rene: 31:10


Melissa Pateras: 31:11

Yeah, hydrogen peroxide is the best kept laundry secret that people don't know about. But hydrogen peroxide and oxygenate it to the same thing, that's what they're intertwined One's liquid, one's powder. So they take time to work. So if you're using an oxy soap, it's best overnight the same with hydrogen peroxide spray it, walk away for a bit and then you wash.

Diana Rene: 31:36

Okay, awesome. Well, anytime you don't have to buy additional products and games, so that's awesome. I'm going to try that. Okay, so we do pretty short episodes on this podcast. Can you please tell people a little bit about your book and when they can find it and where they can find it?

Melissa Pateras: 31:58

Yeah, okay. So this is my book here. It is a Dirty Guide to a Clean Home. I love that. It's a little over two years that took me to write it, but it's got cleaning, diy a little bit and it's got some memoir. It's got laundry, it's got folding, it's got a bit of organizing and it's available now for pre-order. But November 28th it is getting released. You can buy it anywhere. So Amazon, barnes, noble, your local bookstore. It's available everywhere and, yeah, it just walks through the basics A lot of stain removal, individual stains. It's got a little bit of everything in it. It explains a lot of things what is oxygenated bleach? Why aren't we using chlorine bleach anymore? That sort of thing.

Diana Rene: 32:54

It looks like a pretty big book too, so it looks like it's pretty thorough.

Melissa Pateras: 33:00

It is. This one is a fake book because before it's published, they send me my cover on somebody else's book. That's so funny. Yeah, but this is the approximate size. It's about 220 pages, but yeah. So it was a long time when I signed on. I didn't know how hard it was to write a book until I started writing the book.

Diana Rene: 33:25

Yeah, I can imagine. Well, that's awesome, and then where can people find you on social media?

Melissa Pateras: 33:31

So I am on TikTok, facebook, Instagram as either Laundry Tok T-O-K or just my name, Melissa Dilks-Pateras. It's a long story about that.

Diana Rene: 33:49

And we'll link it. We'll link it in the show notes too, because I know it gets confusing with names and all of that. So well, I really appreciate you coming on and giving us, I mean, I think, the spot remover. That's going to help right there. So we really appreciate everything and I had a great time chatting with you.

Melissa Pateras: 34:09

All right, thanks, and it was great talking to you. Thanks for having me on.

Diana Rene: 34:12

Of course. 

Thanks for hanging out and listening to The Decluttered Mom Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world if you could write a review or share this episode with a friend or your Instagram stories, and if you're on Instagram, be sure to follow me at the dot decluttered dot mom and send me a DM to say hi.

I'd love to hear what you thought about today's episode. I hope you'll come back next week and hang out with us again.