Diana 0:06

You're listening to the Decluttered Mom Podcast, a podcast built specifically for busy moms by a busy mom. I'm your host, Diana Rene. And in 2017, I had my second daughter, and it felt like I was literally drowning in my home. Okay, not literally, but I felt like I couldn't breathe with all of the stuff surrounding me.

Over the next 10 months, I got rid of approximately 70% of our household belongings, and I have never looked back. I kind of feel like I hacked the mom system, and I'm here to share all the tips, tricks, and encouragement. Let's listen to today's show.

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Decluttered Mom Podcast. Today we have a guest, and I know we don't normally do many guests on this podcast, but I am really excited about this because uh it is Mallory Whitmore, and she is a friend of mine.

Uh we met on Instagram many years ago and have become friends. She is like the sweetest person ever. When my oldest was first diagnosed with celiac, she actually sent me uh a care package of all of these gluten-free foods from Aldi because we don't have Aldi here in Colorado.

And she knew that my daughter was a Swifty and even sent her all of these like posters that she got from the heiress tour. And she that's just that just explains who Mallory is. She is someone who wants to help people, who is kind and just has the sweetest heart.

And so I'm excited to have her on because you get to hear from her. Um, and she is an expert in formula feeding, and she has a book coming out at the end of the month. And I think that it's going to be a huge valuable resource. I see it being kind of the book about formula feeding um for decades to come.

And so I'm excited to share this conversation with you. Let's jump right in.

All right. I am here with my friend Mallory Whitmore, and she has a new book coming out that even though I am not going to have a baby, and I'm good with that, um, I am excited. I purchased a bunch of copies to give to my pediatrician's office.

Um, it is all about the taking the shame out of formula feeding. Um, welcome to the podcast, Mallory. Thank you so much for having me.

Mallory 2:36

I'm so excited to chat with you always, but especially today.

Diana 2:40

Absolutely. Mallory is someone that I have become friends with via Instagram. It's been a it's been a wonderful journey being able to grow on Instagram with the caveat that like sometimes it's also terrible to grow on Instagram.

Diana 2:55

Yes.

Diana 2:56

But the people like Mallory that I have met and become friends with over the years is a very great perk about it. Yes, fully agree. Yeah.

So, Mallory, if you can just share a little bit about who you are and what this book is about.

Mallory 3:12

Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned I'm Mallory Whitmore. I am the creator and founder of The Formula Mom, which is an online educational platform largely on Instagram that provides uh education and support for formula and bottle feeding parents.

And it really started out of my own desire for more information and connection when I had my kids, you know, 10 years ago and uh six years ago, and couldn't find this sort of evidence-based and research-based and quality non-judgmental information about how to formula feed successfully. I couldn't find it anywhere.

And so uh after sitting on the idea for several years, I started the platform really as sort of a side project and it has grown and grown and grown.

And I realized that my hunch was correct, that that there are plenty of other people that were looking for the same thing. So I launched that in 2020.

And the book, it's called Bottle Service. It's out February 24th, is the natural outgrowth of that. And it really is the guidebook that I went looking for in 2016 when breastfeeding didn't work out with my first and couldn't find. And so I've spent the last 10 years uh, you know, putting together the resource I wish I had.

Diana 4:26

Yeah, absolutely, oh my gosh. And it's so needed. My youngest is nine, so I know that feels like a lifetime in the world.

But it do you feel like the stigma around formula feeding has shifted over the last 10 years, or do you feel like it's kind of in a similar place?

Mallory 4:46

Yeah, I think I think for a while it was getting a little better. Okay.

Um, in that uh it seemed like people were more willing to just let people live, you know, make whatever choice works best for you.

I think in the last couple of years, we have seen uh a real increase in sort of traditional motherhood rhetoric and um sort of back to nature and a push for, you know, the way things used to be and the perceived idea that the way we used to do things is healthier.

Okay. And with that has come, I think, an increased pressure to breastfeed and increased stigma for formula feeding.

And it gets also tied up in what we're also seeing with like traditional, you know, the trad wife rhetoric and you know discouraging women to go back to work. And, you know, that obviously influences the feeding conversation.

And so I think I think right now, in particular, there's a lot of misinformation, there's a lot of fear-mongering, and there's a lot of pressure and guilt that moms are feeling that I would say they weren't feeling in the same way maybe three or four years ago.

Diana 6:07

Interesting. Okay. Man, I wish it was not going that direction.

I was hopeful, you know.

No, I know. I know that when I so when I had my first, so she just turned 12. I had full plans to breastfeed and did like the breastfeeding course and was very prepared in my mind, you know.

And then the baby came and I was like, oh, prepared. This is not what I thought.

Um, and I remember in the hospital um not being able to like she she would not latch. Um, I was not like producing yet, obviously.

Um, and so I had one, it was like almost like a it felt like a Jekyll and Hyde situation where I had one nurse that was like, we can supplement with formula, everything will be okay.

And another nurse that was like, no, if you if you introduce formula, like it's over. Yeah, she's never gonna want your breast milk.

And so like it was this back and forth. I was like freshly postpartum, like you know, yeah, and I just remember feeling so stressed out about it and remembering like I I did end up supplementing, I ended up supplementing for six months.

So like she was breastfeeding and receiving formula, and she actually by the six month mark ended up being fully breastfed.

Um like it was hard at the time I was not working, so like I looked back and I'm like, there's no way I could have done that if I was working.

Um but I just remember feeling like when I fed her with the formula in the hospital, I felt a great sense of relief and at the same time a huge sense of guilt. Like I was failing her. And I didn't know why.

Mallory 8:03

Yeah. Unfortunately, that's really, really common. And honestly, sometimes the relief adds to the guilt.

I that was my experience where I was like, I think if I was a good mom, I should just feel grieved, you know, that that this, you know, what I've been told or what I believe is absolutely, you know, quote unquote best for my baby isn't happening.

But instead, I feel a bit of relief. And does, you know, what does that mean? What does that mean about me?

Um, I felt that that same way.

And I think, you know, and even going back to your experience with combo feeding. So you any anytime you're feeding both formula and breast milk, whether it's, you know, one bottle of formula a day or you're, you know, nursing twice a day, whatever combination is called combo feeding.

And I don't, I don't think it gets talked about enough.

You we know from CDC data that the majority of breastfeeding parents by six months are also giving formula in some capacity. Okay.

75%, 75% of US babies have had formula by six months. Okay.

And so um, it's a super, super common experience. And yet parents tend to feel guilty and ashamed and isolated because no one talks about it and they don't realize that everyone else is also giving formula.

And so that that has always been one of my goals with the formula mom and now with the book is to just shed a light and like, hey, if we can have an open conversation about this and people no longer feel that they have to hide it, that it's something shameful, then we reduce that stigma and that feeling that it's something people should be ashamed of.

So I'm sorry you had that experience, but that's also the most normal experience. I hear it day in and day out and day in and day out from folks.

Um, and also too, the research is clear that early limited supplementation with formula does not decrease the likelihood of successful breastfeeding.

Um, especially, you know, I know you did six months, which is longer than this research study looked at, but it can be a great tool in the hospital to, you know, wait while you wait for your milk to come in.

If you have a baby that's struggling with jaundice or dehydration or low blood sugar or whatever, and so so much of the time parents hesitate because of the fear-mongering around formula.

And and the research really shows the opposite that it can reduce the likelihood that your baby is readmitted.

And it also doesn't necessarily have to affect your ability to breastfeed successfully long term.

So um, I'm glad that that you saw that experience play out in real time, that you were able to supplement when you needed and that you were also able to breastfeed for as long as you wanted. That's amazing.

Diana 10:49

Yeah. And I I first of all, that's a shocking statistic to be 75%. I would never have guessed that.

Mallory 10:56

Right. I know, I know.

Diana 10:58

Um, because I felt like I was the only one in the world, you know.

I had some friends that were like exclusively formula feeding, like they made that decision for whatever reason. And I felt like I was the only one that was like kind of doing dipping my toes in both worlds, I guess.

Mallory 11:15

Yeah.

Diana 11:15

And I will say too that my pediatrician was super supportive of that, like she encouraged that.

And I don't know, or I'm I'm pretty positive if she had not been encouraging of that, I wouldn't have done it because I trusted her.

And yeah, um, and so that's a big reason why I'm excited for your book to get out into the world because you know, I think the more that people um just understand better, like just even like that statistic.

It's like mind-blowing how it is, yeah, how common and how helpful it can be.

Um, I also will say that when I had my second, um, I went into it like just assuming I would be, you know, doing the the supplementation or or what did you say it's called combo feeding? Combo feeding, yeah.

So I assumed I would do that and I just like right from the start did that. And it was it was a big relief to me because I felt like I knew what I was doing.

And um with her, I only combo fed for I think like three or four weeks and then breastfed after that.

And so um that that also just kind of lines up with what you were saying with the research that it can be very helpful in introducing that relationship.

Mallory 12:34

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, there's a lot of fear-mongering around, oh, if you introduce formula or if you start combo feeding, it's a pipeline to exclusive breastfeeding. Yeah.

Um, and the research just doesn't support that.

I was looking at another uh study, this was from 2022, so a few years back, but it uh it was looking at, oh, I forget how many parents, maybe 1400.

So a large-ish sample size, not huge, but large enough.

And 40% of the people that started combo feeding at, I think within the first month of age were still combo feeding uh by the end of the first year.

So that's my disclaimer to folks is that if you start introducing formula, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're on the fast track to never breastfeeding again.

You know, of course, if you want to maintain your supply, work with a lactation consultant, got to make sure that you're expressing enough or withdrawing milk frequently enough that you keep producing.

Um, because obviously, if you start doing some formula feedings, then um it can impact your supply.

But it's absolutely possible. And so many more people do it long term than anyone realizes.

Diana 13:42

For sure. What would you say, in your experience, is the most damaging piece of advice that formula feeding parents receive? And how do you help them move past it?

Mallory 13:54

Yeah. Oh man.

Um, I hesitate to call it advice because it's not really advice.

I think the most the most damaging messaging that parents get is that it's selfish.

And I see it all the time. I hear from from parents in my DMs all the time that are hearing it. I see it on threads and Instagram all the time.

And I think, you know, it's obviously hurtful, it's obviously damaging, sort of on the surface, but it also hits at a really tender point, which is that the majority of parents that are formula feeding are already struggling with the idea.

It's it's very emotionally fraught.

They've ended up at that position largely because they tried breastfeeding and it wasn't working either for them and their anatomy or their baby's anatomy or their baby's food tolerances or medication that they have to take, or they have to go back to work before that breastfeeding was fully established, or you know, all of all of these different things.

Diana 14:57

Right.

Mallory 14:58

And they have been selfless enough to give up their dream so that their baby can be fed.

And then for folks to turn around and call them self-ish for formula feeding is just oh, it's it's so painful.

And, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot there around like it would be great if everybody who had the dream of exclusively breastfeeding could do it.

And that would involve, you know, better access to lactation support and paid leave and you know, uh providers that were more knowledgeable about things like tongue ties and lactogenesis, how milk supply works.

And, you know, there are a whole bunch of structural reasons that folks who want to exclusively breastfeed often can't, where maybe they could have in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world.

And so lots of folks end up using formula.

And um, to call those people selfish is just so it's oh, it's it's so hurtful and it it lacks empathy.

And some sometimes I see that too, where people are like, I would never understand why someone would would give formula. And I'm like, I am you you are so lucky, right?

If you don't understand that you haven't had the experience that some of these women I talk to have had.

Um, because if you did, you would understand.

Diana 16:22

Yeah, for sure. Um, I I think too, uh, it's easy to forget that like the baby's hungry. Yes. Yeah.

Um so you can be like working with a lactation consultant, you can be trying your hardest, but if the baby isn't getting enough milk, like it's the baby still needs to eat.

Mallory 16:44

Absolutely. And that comes, you know, with its own set of risks.

If you have a baby that's, you know, that's underfed or is receiving insufficient nutrition.

And sometimes people get so tied up with what they perceive the risks are to formula feeding.

Oh, it's gonna, you know, alter my baby's gut microbiome.

And I'm like, that could be true, but also your baby's brain could not grow.

Diana 17:08

Right.

Mallory 17:09

And so, you know, don't trade one, you know, perceived smaller risk for for a very large, very uh, you know, possibly realized risk.

Diana 17:18

Yeah. I okay, so I'm glad you mentioned nutrition because over the years I tend to send Mallory random like reels or TikToks that I speak about formula.

Um and I have noticed an uptick in content online on social media from um quote unquote like nutrition specialists.

And I I don't know what their actual credentials are. Maybe they have them, maybe they don't.

Um, but what I have seen a lot about is like all formulas have like you're just feeding your baby corn syrup. That's like that's a big one. So I would love to hear what you guys say about that.

Mallory 18:00

Yeah, corn syrup and seed oils are the two that that people tend to latch on to.

So I'll address both. I'll start with the corn syrup.

So, first thing parents have to know is that yes, some formulas contain corn syrup, not the majority.

The majority are um use lactose as the carb source, which is great. That's the primary carbohydrate source in breast milk. Babies are biologically designed to digest it.

Um, but some do use corn syrup.

And corn syrup in formula is not high fructose corn syrup. It is not the same corn syrup that's been demonized for, you know, a decade now.

Right. It's um a really functional and easily absorbable and digestible carbohydrate source for babies that don't tolerate lactose or um have galactosemia or or another congenital lactose intolerance or lactase deficiency.

It uh is often found in formulas where um that are intended for babies with cow milk protein allergies, so hypoallergenic formulas because they don't want to risk any cross-contamination with milk protein from the lactose.

So they just remove it entirely.

Um, so we sometimes see corn syrup, we sometimes see maltodextrin, we sometimes see sucrose uh as alternative carb sources.

And they are all clinically studied, safe, functional carbohydrates for babies.

And babies need roughly 40% of their calories from carbs. Babies are growing so quickly, so fast. They need a ton of quote unquote sugar. Yeah.

And that's the same amount of you know, sugar, quote, that we see in breast milk. Breast milk has roughly 40% calories from carbs, which is why formula includes that much sugar.

Um, so I always recommend a lactose-based formula if if possible, or you know, where to start if you're looking at a formula, um, because we know that's what's in breast milk, because we know that the number one thing parents tell me they're looking for in formula is similarity to breast milk.

So start with a lactose-based formula, but if it doesn't work for your baby or you have to switch or there's an allergy or whatever, it's not something that parents should be stressed about.

It's the research is so long and deep.

And the greater concern, of course, as you mentioned, is making sure that your baby is getting the calories and the energy and the nutrition that they need.

Um, and if if a corn syrup-based formula is the best way to do that, then that's the best thing for the baby.

So I personally would not stress about it. I used a reduced lactose formula with my first because it's what she tolerated best. I have no regrets. I would use it again tomorrow if I needed to.

Um, so that's the information about corn syrup, seed oils.

Oh man, this has really, I feel like, become a thing, a thing in the last couple of years.

And it's it's the area that I feel the most like I am pushing the boulder uphill when we talk about infant formulas.

So for background, if if any of your listeners are not part of this world, enjoy it because it's it's tough.

But generally uh folks that are in sort of more crunchier circles sometimes will advocate that folks shouldn't be consuming seed oils because they contain omega-6 fatty acids, particularly linoleic acid, and that it can be inflammatory.

Diana 21:14

Okay.

Mallory 21:14

And it is true that if your your ratio of omega-3 fatty acids and omega-6 fatty acids is way off, it's not good for you.

And in the standard American diet, that's very, very prevalent.

The majority of us are eating way too much omega-6 linoleic acid.

But we also know that, you know, if we believe breast milk is the blueprint, breast milk is the gold standard, that roughly 15% of the fats in mature breast milk is omega 6 linoleic acid. Okay.

So we know that this is necessary for infant growth and development, particularly in the brain.

And so if we know babies need it, if we know they need it, then we've got to give it to them.

And in infant formula, the best. Way to do that is through plant-based oils.

And so, you know, I see all the time people are like, Well, we need a formula without the seed oils. And I'm like, if we have a formula without the seed oils, then you're looking at malnutrition. Like that's not, that is not a win. That's not a win for anybody.

So for folks that are concerned about seed oils, there's a couple of things that they can do.

The first is to prioritize a whole milk-based formula.

The majority of formulas in the US are made with skim or non-fat milk, which means that they have to add plant-based oils to make up the entirety of the fat composition.

If you look at whole milk formulas, because the whole milk contributes that inherent fat, the volume of plant-based oils that need to be added is lower.

So for folks that are concerned, look to uh whole milk-based options. The majority of formulas in the US are made with skim or non-fat milk, which means that they have to add plant-based oils to make up the entirety of the fat composition.

If you look at whole milk formulas, because the whole milk contributes that inherent fat, the volume of plant-based oils that need to be added is lower.

So for folks that are concerned, look to uh whole milk-based options. And there are several on the market now.

And then also some of the concerns that people have about seed oils are related to processing.

So, you know, is it sourced from genetically modified seeds? Did they use hexane or other chemical solvents to extract the oil? Did they use bleaching agents to withdraw the excess color and flavor?

Um, and so if you are concerned about any of that, choosing an organic formula can help mitigate some of those concerns because of the restrictions on processing that come with the organic certification.

So, whole milk formula and organic, if seed oils are a concern for you, they are not for me. As an expert, they are not for me a concern at all.

My bigger concern is, you know, folks that are making homemade formulas because they want to avoid them and then their babies aren't getting their, I mean, there, it's truly an essential fatty acid.

Um, they're not getting that fat that they need. That's that is the bigger concern.

Diana 23:48

For sure. I think that um anytime I watch videos like that, I like my I full disclaimer, I am not a crunchy mom.

So I will like I totally understand that my my framework and how I view nutrition and food might be totally different than someone listening that is a crunchy mom, you know?

Diana 24:09

Yeah.

Um and at the same time, like I think it's easy to forget that breast milk like has those specific nutrients and components.

Yeah. Um, and that like formula companies aren't just like dumping a bunch of stuff in there being like that works, you know.

Mallory 24:29

Yes, yeah, there's no collusion.

Sometimes people will be like, I don't understand why. It doesn't matter if I go to Europe or Australia, I can't find any that don't have seed oils.

I'm like, it's not because there's like some big formula cabal that's trying to poison children, it's because every expert from around the globe has determined that this is necessary.

Um, yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting.

I feel like it's always a chiropractor, too. It's never even like a certified dietitian. It's always a chiropractor that's a man standing in the aisle being like, this is bad.

Yeah. Um, and yeah, and I think, you know, you're right that we need to mirror the nutrient profile that we see in breast milk.

But then the other thing I think sometimes parents forget is that not only are we getting all of those really great nutrients and bioactive components, antibodies and growth factors and all of that in breast milk, but you're also getting PFAS and uh which are you know microplastics, forever chemicals, heavy metals, that that all gets accumulated and excreted through breast milk as well.

So we we're currently seeing a big conversation about heavy metals and infant formula, and like, oh gosh, like they're testing for this level and this level.

And um, parents are like, don't do formula because there's heavy metals.

And I'm like, these are naturally occurring in the environment. This is much less mercury than you would get from a serving of salmon. Right.

But also, um, you know, those are all compounds that if you're worried about it, it's also these are also things we find in breast milk, which is not to fearmonger, but to say that um there's no perfect clean, you know, whatever way uh to feed a baby.

And sometimes we get so tied into benefits of breastfeeding and perceived risks of formula feeding without talking about any of the tangible or practical benefits there can be for formula feeding or any of these sort of not risks of breastfeeding, but considerations for breastfeeding at at sort of like a one-to-one level.

So I always like to mention that too.

Diana 26:47

That makes sense. And I really like um, I really like your approach.

Like your approach in this feels very non-judgmental to me because you've mentioned several times, like if this is the concern, then look for a formula with why, you know?

Yeah. Um, and so I think that's that's an important piece of this is that um there is not just one formula company out there.

There are lots of different formula companies out there doing things very differently.

Um, but that leads me to another question that like I know this year there was a big recall with a formula company, and I think that didn't help people trust formula, you know.

Like, what would you say to someone who's maybe pregnant with their first baby and they planned on maybe formula feeding, um, and now they're like freaked out about it?

Mallory 27:39

Yeah, I mean, first I would say my heart goes out, you know, to to any parent because it's it's a scary time when you have a newborn and their immune systems are brand new and uh the world is scary for all sorts of reasons currently.

But yeah, um, but yeah, I think, you know, it's tough because when we see recalls, it puts parents in a really tricky spot.

Parents are concerned about whether their baby's been exposed to some sort of pathogen or bacteria, and then they're also concerned about whether they're going to be able to find their formula or an alternate formula.

Right.

From an industry perspective, recalls are not positive, but they do show us that the systems that are in place to keep infants safe are working as intended.

And so you never want a recall, but also it's always comforting to know that the systems are working.

This most recent recall due to botulism bacteria is really unprecedented.

So before this recall, there has never ever, ever been a recall related to botulism concern in infant formula.

And if you would have asked experts six weeks ago, you know, before this, um before this happened, if it was possible for botulism bacteria to live in formula, they would have said, no, I don't think so.

So this in particular is really unprecedented.

And I'm grateful now that uh manufacturers worldwide are starting to implement testing for this type of spore uh generating bacteria, various clusterdium um strains.

Okay.

Um, because many didn't have that testing before because no one thought this was a possibility before.

So I guess all that to say, what I would say to parents now is that you know, kind of like how it's scary to fly after there's an aircraft incident, but it's actually the safest time to fly because um all eyes are on safety and process and um risk management in a way that maybe it wasn't before.

Right. It's safer now than it has ever been because of some of the challenges that we've seen in the in the last few years.

Diana 30:03

That makes sense. Okay. That's I that is comforting, and I didn't think of it as that.

Mallory 30:08

I mean, it still sucks. It's awful. For sure. It's awful. And I would love to never see another recall again.

Right. Um, but it is it's incredibly safe, incredibly highly regulated.

Diana 30:20

Right. I know. I I feel like I'm seeing every day a recall for like every healthy food out there, like every produce item.

And I'm like, like, I do I just have to eat Oreos, like there's never an Oreo.

Mallory 30:34

Um yes, I'm signed up for the FDA recall alerts.

Um and so I get I get all of them, not just baby formula and truly every day.

I'm like, is it safe to just exist?

Diana 30:45

Exactly. I'm like, I just have to eat air.

Mallory 30:48

Yes, yes, yeah, it's uh it's wild.

Diana 30:51

Right. Okay, so because my podcast focuses on like home management and systems and routines and all of that, I would love to hear what input you have on like what systems or routines help um make formula feeding feel less chaotic in those early months.

Mallory 31:12

Yes. Oh, I I love this topic because it this really impacts how a mom or a family feels in the postpartum season about how they're feeding, if if it feels chaotic, if it feels stressful, if they constantly feel like they're sort of behind the ball.

So, first and foremost, set up a feeding station if you have a multi-level house on all of the levels of your house.

So if you are keeping your baby in a bassinet in your room, set up a feeding station in your room as well as in the kitchen.

And I typically recommend that you have um spare bottles, spare water if you're using powdered formula, some sort of basin where you can put uh used bottles, just like a the bottom of a Tupperware container.

It doesn't have to be anything fancy, extra burp cloths, extra powder formula that's been pre-portioned.

So if it's 3 a.m., you don't have to be like measuring the scoops and turning the light on.

So make sure that you have everything you need where you're gonna need it, no matter where you are essentially in the house, so that you're not running back and forth trying to find stuff.

So set up your feeding station where where you actually live with the with this baby.

Mallory 32:24

Yeah.

Um, the second thing is people will ask me, how many bottles do I need? You know, do I need six? Do I need 18?

And the answer there is that it really just depends on how frequently you want to be washing the bottles.

Um, you can wash them in the dishwasher if you have a dishwasher on the upper rack. So you don't have to be hand washing 12 times a day.

Um, so that really comes down to personal preference.

And then my my favorite hack is related to reducing waste. And there are sort of two strategies here.

The first is to consider batching your formula in a mixing pitcher.

And Dr. Brown's and Baby Brezza have have options. The Dr. Brown's one is my favorite. It's like nine dollars. It's so affordable. It's dishwasher safe and it lets you make a full day's worth of formula at once. Okay.

And then you store it in the fridge and you pour from it as needed.

Okay.

And I always recommend, you know, especially in the early days where babies are really inconsistent about how they're eating, pour a more conservative number of ounces.

And then if your baby needs it, you can top up versus um, you know, running the risk that you have to pour out a lot of formula.

So that helps to reduce waste in terms of formula.

The other strategy I call the top-up bottle, which works similarly.

Um, but if you're not batching formula, basically, you make one bottle that has more volume than you think your baby will drink.

You pour some of it off the top into a separate bottle, put that in the fridge.

If your baby's still hungry, you can use that bottle, that excess bottle to top up what you're feeding your baby.

If not, you store it in the fridge and you use that for the next feeding.

And so um, that can be helpful not only reducing waste, but then also reducing the number of bottles that you're using because you're not having to get a fresh bottle out to make more.

You can use that bottle for the next feeding.

So that tends to help as well.

And then the other thing, the last thing I would say as it relates to sort of systems, is to not buy a bunch of bottles until you are certain which one works for your baby.

Um, because you can end up with like 30 bottles because you've got three of a bunch of different types.

And so I always recommend there are some registry providers like Babylist that you can register for a variety pack of bottles and you get one of a couple different types.

Or check with your network, check with your local moms group on Facebook or your next door app in your neighborhood to see if any moms would be willing to let you borrow a bottle or two until you figure out which kind your baby will take and then make your purchase.

Um, so you don't end up with a whole bunch of bottles that you then have to donate or declutter later.

Diana 35:08

Uh-huh. Oh my gosh.

I you like just brought me back to a time when my second would not take a bottle at first at all.

And so I think I bought every bottle on the market and we did not have the money to buy every bottle on the market, but it was like a whole cabinet full of ramp that she wouldn't take a bottle from.

Mallory 35:27

Yep. That is it's so common. It's so common.

And I'm like, we need a marketplace for bottle borrowing and sharing so that we don't.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Diana 35:38

Oh my gosh. Okay.

Um, also, I love the the tips on, you know, reducing waste, especially with just formula as expensive like everything in the grocery store right now.

Mallory 35:50

It is, yeah. And it, you know, it also has food safety rules.

Again, you know, going back to, you know, wanting to minimize the risk of bacterial contamination.

So, you know, the food safety rules are relatively strict. You're supposed to throw it out within an hour that your baby starts the feeding.

And so if they if you have a giant bottle and they don't drink it all, you have to pour it, pour it down the drain, and that's really painful because it is expensive.

Um so I always I'm always a fan of trying to reduce waste.

Diana 36:17

Does your book cover all of those little rules? Like, yeah, like okay, because that's something I would have loved to have because I felt like it was hard to get accurate information on what was allowed and what wasn't.

Um then you would see like a mom post in a Facebook group about like this is what she's doing, and everyone would be like, Oh yeah, I do that too, and my baby's never gotten sick.

And right, yeah, you know, it's hard to tell what is what is a proper food safety protocol versus like an over-paranoid one.

Mallory 36:50

Yes, it absolutely is. And I think it's especially been hard in the last year or so with parents not knowing where to turn to for accurate information.

You know, you've got all these people on social media that are saying one thing, and then the FDA and the CDC are, you know, not operating the way they always have and pulling down websites.

And, you know, it's um so it's hard.

So, yes, that was really my goal with the book was to be like, here are the resources that you need that you can trust, and here are all the references, all of the research and all the data.

Um, but yeah, so the book is really divided into sort of three types of content.

The first is strictly, you know, deep dive educational.

So, what's in formula? How do you choose a formula? How do you make a bottle? How do you know when to go up or down a nipple flow size?

Um, why do you need to wean from bottles at 12 months? Like, why is that recommended when you can keep breastfeeding until your baby's two or three or beyond?

Um, so educational content.

And then there are what I call quick tips. Okay.

And those are things like the top-up bottle that we just um discussed, and also a list of what to include in your feeding station.

So tips that you can implement that day to make your life easier, because nothing drives me more crazy than when the advice people give to new moms who are struggling is like, well, wait till your baby's six weeks and they'll grow out of it.

That's an eternity.

Right. When you have a fussy baby, like and you're living a million lifetimes every 24 hours. That's an eternity.

So tips that will make your life better that day that are easy to implement.

And then the third uh type of content are vignettes.

I call them mom notes that are um just about uh life in this new season and how you can, you know, attempt to feel more like yourself and how you navigate any like guilt or shame or grief that you have that your feeding journey didn't turn out as planned.

And, you know, I I have one in there about how I recommend navigating social media in the postpartum season so that you don't feel terrible all the time.

So it's it's a little bit of everything education, practical tips, and and then also support and encouragement.

Diana 39:00

Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, and then can you share why your book is only in paperback?

Mallory 39:08

Yes. So um that's the the tangible format, I guess. It's it will also be available in ebook and audiobook, which I got to um I got to narrate, which was so fun, but also a little strange because I was like, you know, the book has a lot of my own story and a lot of my own personal anecdotes.

And I'm sitting there in this booth and I'm talking about like the elasticity of my nipples while I'm trying to pump, and there's a 70-year-old man audio engineer on the other side, and I'm like, he's getting a lot of information.

But anyway, um, yeah, so when I was, you know, I got this book deal and I was so thrilled, and I'm signing the contract and they wanted to release it in hardcover, uh, which is relatively typical for this sort of like prescriptive nonfiction.

And I really pushed back on it and I was like, I want it to be a paperback. It has to be a paperback for two reasons.

Number one, because it lowers the price point. And I did not want this to be, I didn't want the price point to be a barrier for folks that needed the information.

And then number two, it's really hard to flip through a paperback one-handed.

And if you have a baby in the other hand, or if you're making a bottle and you have the pages open because you want to know how to do it, I was like, I don't want them dealing with like uh what is what is that called?

Like the the cover, like the flap.

Diana 40:23

Oh yeah.

Mallory 40:23

I don't know. Yeah.

Um, and you know, trying to keep a hardcover open that wants to close.

And so that was that was one of the things I advocated for was I need this to be a paperback.

And I know that the margins are worse, you know, for the publisher on my paperback, but it felt uh like the best way to serve this particular community was to make it as easy to use and as accessible as I could.

Diana 40:46

Yeah, I love that. And I just wanted you to share that because I remember when when I heard that for the first time, it was like, oh, she's thought of everything, like for the for the person.

Mallory 40:55

I'm I'm trying.

Diana 40:56

I'm trying.

Yeah. Um, okay. Another question I have is um a lot of my content has been moving towards um, you know, mental load and making sure that everyone in the home is just as involved as mom managing the home and managing all the things that go into just being able to have a family that functions day to day. Yes.

If you wanted to how do I say this? How do how would a partner or a support person in a mom's life who's formula feeding, how would how would they factor into successful bottle feeding?

Mallory 41:42

Oh, I love this question.

Um, first and foremost, get the book, read the book. Yeah, all the information is in there.

Um, but I think I see two really specific ways that partners can help.

The first is if the mom knows that she either wants to formula feed or she's open to formula feeding in the hospital, the partner can be I I hate to use the word like a bouncer, but kind of like a bouncer in terms of helping to advocate for what the mom wants and needs.

Because if you plan to formula feed in the hospital, you typically have to have the conversation every time there's a shift change.

So every eight hours or every 12 hours.

And if you had a C-section, you're in there for three days.

And so you're having this conversation over and over about why you don't want to breastfeed or why you want to use formula.

And often that conversation includes, you know, well, do you know why? This is why breast is best.

Have you signed a waiver that says you're formula feeding against medical advice, which happens in some hospitals? It's absolutely crazy.

Um, and that's a really taxing conversation to have when you are recovering from birth, you're hormonal, you're bleeding, you're leaking from everything, every possible place.

Um, and you're tired, right? Because you're not sleeping.

And so having a partner that you can align with ahead of time on sort of what's your position, and then putting them in charge of interfacing with um with the medical team can be really helpful in uh giving the mom the space to not do that because nobody has margin immediately after birth to have that conversation literally seven times.

Right.

So that's the first thing.

And that's you know, immediate right in the hospital.

The other thing that I think is is often overlooked is one of the big benefits of bottle feeding and specifically formula feeding, is that one person doesn't have to take every night shift.

And we know that consolidated night sleep is such a protective factor against postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and other perinatal mood disorders.

Um and so in the book, I've got a whole Chapter on this, uh, I call this technique night splitting.

And basically it's if you can, if your schedule allows it, if your work demands allow it, split the night into two five-hour shifts. Okay.

Have one partner take the first shift.

We did roughly like 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. I normally took that shift because I'm more of a night owl.

And then uh 3 a.m. to 8 a.m. shift. And my husband normally took that because he always felt more confident taking care of the baby after he had slept.

Okay.

And that gives each partner five consolidated hours of sleep every night.

And I always recommend too, if you're able, if you're the off-duty quote parent, sleep in another room because you're gonna wake up and be attentive, of course, to every move or sound your baby makes.

So if it's workable for your for your circumstance, absolutely trade off some of the work at night because everybody is more confident and capable and um emotionally stable after having sufficient sleep.

That totally makes sense.

Diana 45:08

And even five hours, like I remember even like two hours of sleep at that time, I felt like I could run a marathon.

Mallory 45:15

I know, I know. And now I'm like, I get six hours of sleep and I'm like, oh right, it can't function.

But yeah, the adrenaline and you know, everything keeps keeps you going.

But yeah, so that's a a big way that partners can help is try to alleviate some of the load at night.

Diana 45:30

Okay, I love that. Awesome.

Well, Mallory, um, when is the book coming out?

Mallory 45:36

February 24th, Tuesday, February 24th.

Diana 45:39

Perfect. And where can people pre-order?

Mallory 45:43

Yes, absolutely.

Um, basically anywhere books are sold.

I you can go to my website, it's bottleservicebook.com.

And there's a link to a bunch of different retailers, um, Barnes Noble and Amazon and bookshop.org if you want to support your local independent bookstores.

Um, and I also want to throw out that if you pre-order the book, I have a couple of pre-order incentives.

So you get free bonus goodies if you pre-order and submit your proof of purchase.

One is a uh PDF guide that basically summarizes my favorite tips for starting formula and ending formula, including um how you drop bottles and what age and how that process works.

Because we see, even now, we're starting to see more information for parents about how to start with formula, but there's not a lot.

There's not a lot out there about how do you actually like wean from bottles and formula.

So a PDF guide.

And then I also um commissioned a companion children's book to go with bottle service.

So you get a book for you and a book for your baby, and it's called Fed Baby Loved Baby.

It's an inclusive picture book that shows all the different ways babies can be fed, pumping, formula, breastfeeding, and g tube g tube.

Um and I just really love it.

So pre-order the book and you get you get both. You get the children's book as well.

Diana 47:01

That's amazing. Awesome.

We're we'll we're all oh my gosh, I can't talk.

We will also include um that link in the show notes.

So if you didn't get that, write it down. If you're driving, then you can just click the link in the show notes and get it.

Um, and like I mentioned before, I do not have any infants in my home, but I pre-ordered several copies to give to my pediatrician.

Um, and if you are a mom who wishes that you had this book when you're when your children were little, then maybe that's an idea too, you could give to your pediatrician's office to have on hand for new parents who might be struggling with um with feeding decisions and kind of what to do and just not having the the education out there to to make an informed decision.

Mallory 47:48

Absolutely. I love that idea. Thank you.

That's so so kind. Not only, you know, for me ordering the book, but also for the the patients that it could help.

Diana 47:57

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I had a blast, I could talk to you all day, but I know.

Thank you so much for coming on. This was great and super informational.

And I know it's gonna help a lot of people.

And I just had a blast chatting with you.

Mallory 48:10

Yes, absolutely. Always a pleasure, and thank you for for chatting through this with me as well. I really enjoyed it.

Diana 48:16

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